Bosses of the Post Office and Fujitsu faced a tough set of questions on Tuesday as they appeared before MPs to explain their companies’ role in the Horizon scandal.
Between 1999 and 2015, more than 700 postmasters and assistant postmasters were wrongfully convicted of crimes such as theft, fraud and false accounting. This was due to a bug in Horizon, an IT accounting system developed by Fujitsu; Post office branch accounts.
The Post Office persistently defended the use of Horizon and went on to sue hundreds of postmasters. Speaking to the Business and Trade Committee, Fujitsu’s European director Paul Patterson apologized to the victims, while Post Office chief executive Nick Read said the service was “very keen to get to the bottom of this”.
But committee member Ian Lavery was unimpressed with bosses’ responses, telling them: “If we’re bringing people before the committee we’d expect them to at least have some knowledge of the history of what’s going on, something this big like this. I’m not disappointed by the responses I’ve received, I’m absolutely appalled.” .”
Here, Yahoo News breaks down some of the key questions that still remain unanswered following today’s committee hearing.
Why didn’t Fujitsu take action even though it knew about the flaws in its system?
The committee heard that Fujitsu was aware of flaws in the Horizon system quite early after the system was installed in 1999.
But when Patterson was asked why the company hadn’t taken action, he said: “I don’t know. I really do not know. On a personal level I wish I had known. After my appointment in 2019, I looked at these situations and the evidence I saw about the company and I don’t know.
“What I do know is that the investigation is about who knew what, when, and the actions they did or did not take to bring attention to the concerns. I don’t know.”
What happened to the money he was asked to repay to the sub-postmasters?
Former deputy postmaster Jo Hamilton, who appeared before the committee alongside fellow campaigner Alan Bates, claimed the National Federation of Sub-Postmasters had offered her little help.
Describing her phone call to the federation for advice, she said: “Go and find yourself a good criminal lawyer.” That was the only help I got from them. “There was no question where the money was going.”
The Post Office made staff pay back money in a bid to cover these fictitious shortfalls, but Nick Read told MPs today that despite being investigated by two or three auditors, the service still “can’t get the gist” of what happened to the money. times. Asked if there was a chance the money would go towards “heavy numbering packages for managers” he said: “It’s possible, absolutely possible.”
Asked how he would feel if some senior Post Office managers received some of his money as bonuses, he told MPs: “It’s truly disgusting, to be honest.
How many victims are there?
Read said the Post Office had seen more sub-postmasters affected by the Horizon scandal forwarded directly to it since the ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office aired at the start of the year.
“About 200 postmasters have come forward as a result of this drama,” he said. “We had 31 people come to us directly as a result of the drama.” But Read added that “many postmasters have told us not to contact them”, claiming the “enormous amount of publicity” in recent days had been “extremely stressful and traumatic” for some victims.
Hamilton revealed that a potential victim contacted him on his way to the hearing.
Read more
When was the first error in Horizon reported to the Post Office?
Fujitsu’s Paul Patterson told the committee that major IT projects like Horizon will inevitably involve “some bugs and errors.”
But details of when an error that could have led to accounting errors was discovered and when the Post Office was alerted were unclear.
He said Fujitsu had shared relevant information with its customer, adding: “How the Post Office chooses to use this information in its investigations is entirely up to the Post Office.” When asked when the first error was communicated to the Post Office, the committee was surprised when Patterson replied: “I can’t tell you the month or year.”
Asked whether he or Fujitsu were aware that the glitches could lead to accounting inconsistencies, he said: “There is no evidence before me that links an existing error to a deficiency. Could it cause shortages? Yes it could.”
Will Fujitsu contribute to the compensation of subpostmasters?
Fujitsu’s European boss admitted at today’s hearing that the company had a “moral obligation” to contribute to compensation for Post Office Horizon victims.
“We were involved from the very beginning,” Patterson said. We had bugs and errors in the system. And we assisted the Post Office with cases against sub-postmasters. So we are truly sorry.”
Fujitsu’s global boss, Takahito Tokita, told the BBC in Davos that his firm “apologizes for the impact it has had on the lives and families of postmasters”. But he refused to say whether the firm would repay victims, adding: “Please understand, there is a public inquiry ongoing.”
When asked how much Fujitsu might pay, Patterson took a similar tone, telling MPs: “I don’t have any estimates. I don’t intend to calculate that. I think it’s right and appropriate that we let the investigation reveal where the responsibility lies.”
Will a criminal investigation be opened against those who are at fault?
Pointing to a legal public inquiry into the scandal, Hamilton raised the possibility of criminal action being taken against some of the people who allowed the incident to unfold on his watch.
The inquiry’s chairman, retired judge Sir Wyn Williams, will “find out who is guilty”. Hamilton added: “It needs to get to the bottom of who knows what happened when, and if something criminal happens, they should face prosecution.”
The chances of this happening are still very remote, but some victims of the Horizon scandal are calling for criminal charges to be filed. Sarah Osolinski, who was wrongly accused of stealing while managing a Post Office branch in Cheltenham, told Sky News: “If what we did was a crime, what they did is 100 times worse because they were the ones who punished us. Let’s keep our heads above water.”
The Prime Ministry spokesman told reporters today: “Those found responsible must be held legally and financially accountable. We cannot prejudge the work of the investigation. “Part of that is establishing what went wrong and things like criminality, but obviously based on the findings of the independent investigation we will act accordingly.”